Author Topic: Is Celica-gts.com Rwd Only? (Read 9843 times)

Steven Benner · « **Reply #1 on:** Dec 23, 2008, 05:31:38 am »

Call me an idealist, but I see no reason that newer Celica owner, 4x4 owners, and yes even those crazy supra owners should be discouraged from coming over here and being part of the community.

Convince my why it should be otherwise.

I am always willing to hear your opinions. However, I cannot dig up every thread that has talked about this. So voice your thoughts here.

Rydman313 · « **Reply #2 on:** Dec 23, 2008, 06:13:14 am »

While I agree that all should be welcome, I suspect the reluctance to entertain those posts concerning the newer versions of the cars has more to do with the lack of knowledge about those newer cars than anything else. When Toyota abandoned the RWD versions, they completely changed the entire driveline and technologies, and it seems many of us here either aren't interested in learning about the differences, or simply don't have much experience with them. Most, if not all of the replies to the FWD posts that I've seen have been referred elsewhere where the information that was requested was more available. Personally, I've looked at those posts as being as helpful as possible, rather than just being exclusionary in nature. I'm sure if most of us had more experience with the newer cars, we would be a better resource for people looking for answers about them.....

Just my opinion....

zipty842 · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 23, 2008, 06:26:00 am »

Tthe only real differences are how the parts are arranged. The whole rwd vs fwd vs 4wd thing is moot, as they all have their own strengths and weaknesses.

dead91silvia · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 23, 2008, 06:42:29 am »

I dont really care if it says it ether way or not. Toyota trucks use the same motor till 95, the tranys are almost the same, and for the most part all Toyota's have a ton of the same things. Even other Badges, Nissan, Honda, Subaru, Mazda all have something in common...

On the other side, these days whe you refer to a Celica "GTS" most thing of the newer car. You can not blame them for asking for help with there car, but most hit a brick wall with some people blandly telling then "this is a site for RWD only"... Thats bad PR in my book. I have worked on tons of newer cars, I always welcome learning more about them if I have the chance...

I have no problem ether way, but I do believe that it might help people that are looking for help if they could tell what the sight is dedicated to.

My 2 cents....

Teranfirbt · « **Reply #5 on:** Dec 23, 2008, 06:43:11 am »

Referring people to other forums is at least being helpful. There's been more than a few occasions where people with front drive Celicas have been downright made fun of. I believe I've made my stance on the whole thing rather clear.

a2ndopinion · « **Reply #6 on:** Dec 23, 2008, 07:59:25 am »

While I agree that we do not need to necessarily exclude FWD, I've always thought that this forum was dedicated to the 3rd Gen GT-S, and when I first arrived, I was out of place because I had 2nd Gens. I found this place looking for OldMage, as he seemed to have the best grasp of the 2xR motor of anyone I'd found, was somewhere close to me, and I wanted one of "his" adjustable cam gears because I was trying to avoid LC Engineering like the plague! I stayed here because the driveline is the same (other than the '83-'85 GT-S IRS, and of course carb Vs EFI), the friendship was nice, people were knowledgeable... The FWDs only share a name with us.

Most of us do not like

, and are not especially friendly to drifting either. I'm not saying it's bad, but with 20 or 30 of us being quite regular here, that does make it hard for us to readily welcome "our forum" to FWD, ricers or drifters.

This is the only forum I know of that is "dedicated" to 3rd (and 2nd?) Gen Celicas, and I really appreciate the camaraderie we have here. And yes, we do have some truck/4X4 owners here too, who again share (most of) the same driveline. In fact, some of them share some very good information with us.

As for parts and arrangement of the FWDs (as zipty was saying), since I like what we have here, see no reason why we need to dilute the expertise we have. I have worked on just about everything out there, but am here because this is what I like. They (FWDs, drifters and ricers) have forums where they congregate, so I have no reason to welcome them here (politely of course). As for "bad PR", we aren't here to make money by helping (or not helping) anyone. If they feel that we should help them, I think they're wrong. Even if we were rude, we are not a business here. I'm am not condoning rudeness, just saying... Hell, I've pissed people off with my own business, telling them something they don't want to hear. They call me, not paying enough attention to my ads to realize that I'm not working on their '95 Celica, or V6 4Runner.

Bottom line - for those who drop in here mistakenly, we try to politely assist them and/or send them in the right direction, and explain that we are (as we feel that we are) dedicated to mainly the '83-'85 GT-S, but also RWD Celicas, sharing common drivelines.
Do we need to change anything to reflect that? Not necessarily, but it may make it easier to stop some of those who wander here by mistake.

ubertuner · « **Reply #7 on:** Dec 23, 2008, 09:59:55 am »

I must say Mr. Benner sums the whole thing perfectly in the first post. Celica GTS is simply not a RWD only forum. Factually, I've noted a section dedicated to anything not Toyota. Engine, General discusion, Pictures... there is all forms of potential for open discusion here about anything under the sun. Anyone spending time in the site will establish quickly the focus is RWD, but not exclusively. Heck, aren't we all engaged in a topic now that has nothing to do with the drivetrains of our vehicles?

hybrid_turbo · « **Reply #8 on:** Dec 23, 2008, 10:09:53 am »

bob... you would be surprised how many people on here drift.
i do not believe it should be hard to "readily welcome" drifters just because of
what we do, its a motorsport its great fun. its what we like to do. people have
different taste..
i HATE track racing and drag racing but i do not find it hard to "readily welcome"
them here because i dont like it.

FWD people are often lead to another site purely because we can not help them.
some people go a bit overboard though, sometimes the FWD people get offended
just by us helping them.

even if we did welcome them with open arms and they stuck around they still wont
be able to get many answers from us. as we know nothing about them.

Ricers... we lets face it, rice is what ever YOU dont like. its not a real category like.
imports
domestic
muscle
classic
exotic etc.

83GTCoupe · « **Reply #9 on:** Dec 23, 2008, 06:49:40 pm »

Ummm... Not to be a jerk, but based on what the original forum states, I have to disagree.
"Welcome to Celica-GTS.com, home of the original high performance import! This web site is my tribute to the Toyota Celica. More so the 1983 model with the GT-S package. Which includes four wheel independent suspension, fuel injection, big 14" x 7" aluminum alloy GTS wheels and fender flares, 8-way adjustable seat, cruise control, tilt wheel, power windows/mirrors and all of the other amenities you would expect from a modern import." The rest is HERE

Now although it doesn't state that it's not a FWD forum, it does clearly state that it was dedicated to the 83 model GT-S, and what spawned from that was SRA people showing up before this newer forum was created.

I have to agree with Bob, that allowing this to become a free for all forum, will ruin it like the rest of the Celica forums out there. This is the only forum really dedicated to us, and I don't want to see it go to the shitter, or become diluted with FWD stuff. I've never been opposed to helping a FWD person get to the right place, and help when I can, but this really isn't the place for them in my opinion.

We all have one and it stinks. I know...

a2ndopinion · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 23, 2008, 08:18:26 pm »

Quote

bob... you would be surprised how many people on here drift.
i do not believe it should be hard to "readily welcome" drifters just because of
what we do, its a motorsport its great fun. its what we like to do. people have
different taste..
i HATE track racing and drag racing but i do not find it hard to "readily welcome"
them here because i dont like it.

FWD people are often lead to another site purely because we can not help them.
some people go a bit overboard though, sometimes the FWD people get offended
just by us helping them.

even if we did welcome them with open arms and they stuck around they still wont
be able to get many answers from us. as we know nothing about them.

Ricers... we lets face it, rice is what ever YOU dont like. its not a real category like.
imports
domestic
muscle
classic
exotic etc.

There was no offense intended with the drifting, and I do for fun too. I would even go to a good event if they could ever get their (stuff) straight around here and get a good event going.

My comment(s) was for the guys that show up here as a noob and ask about what they can do to their newly acquired GT-S to drift, and most of us know that the guy is not interested in the car itself, and will probably trash it. That is what offends many of us here.

Rice IS a category.
It is the gaudy wing, the big ol' coffee/fart can muffler, loud to the point of being obnoxious, springs chopped so the car is bouncing off of the bump stops, neon lights, wheels too wide for the tires... Things that are done to a car either by the unknowing, thinking it is a needed mod for performance, or simply because it is "cool"; none of which actually helps any performance.
All of those things are what make up a "ricer", and are what most of us here do not care for, at least on our old school Celicas.

PS - I do not mean to be derailing this thread, just trying to explain my earlier comment and answer Jason's response.

dead91silvia · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 24, 2008, 03:20:13 am »

Huh... you guys are amazing...

You guys talk like these cars are the cats meow. They are not. I love them because I have had great memories with mine. IT'S A DAMN CAR!

Another thing also. Bob, before you go and tag people with things like ricer, please think about it before saying it. I know your an out spoken person, but you just might offend more then just Jason. "Ricers" is not a category, that would be a stereo type. The proper "category" would be "Tuners" or "Compacts". I have been called "gay" for having a Subaru and I'm not by a long shot. So please refrain form using that wordage.

Yes, the title states what the Forum is for, but Steve didnt make this site to shun other people from it for the car they drive or the fact the they just might want to beat the crap out of a Celica. Have you guys ever thought that if the cars get on the track and people like to use them, you might get more after market support? I bet not.

We have a wealth of info here for people to use and we could not be hurt from learning some more. I know the active member list is low, but would it not be nice to have more people active from letting them feel like they have another home rather them more people telling them they are stupid for not having a Celica or telling them they need to get ride of there car because they are not worthy???

dead91silvia · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 24, 2008, 03:24:13 am »

If this site is really only for the 1983 Toyota Celica GTS only, then I should not be here, I only have a GT....

83GTCoupe · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 24, 2008, 03:32:10 am »

Quote

Huh... you guys are amazing...

You guys talk like these cars are the cats meow. They are not. I love them because I have had great memories with mine. IT'S A DAMN CAR!

Another thing also. Bob, before you go and tag people with things like ricer, please think about it before saying it. I know your an out spoken person, but you just might offend more then just Jason. "Ricers" is not a category, that would be a stereo type. The proper "category" would be "Tuners" or "Compacts". I have been called "gay" for having a Subaru and I'm not by a long shot. So please refrain form using that wordage.

Yes, the title states what the Forum is for, but Steve didnt make this site to shun other people from it for the car they drive or the fact the they just might want to beat the crap out of a Celica. Have you guys ever thought that if the cars get on the track and people like to use them, you might get more after market support? I bet not.

We have a wealth of info here for people to use and we could not be hurt from learning some more. I know the active member list is low, but would it not be nice to have more people active from letting them feel like they have another home rather them more people telling them they are stupid for not having a Celica or telling them they need to get ride of there car because they are not worthy???

You're missing the point by a long shot Robin. Have you bothered at all to go to ANY of the FWD Celicas forums, and seen how screwed up they are? I don't want to see that crap going on here, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way. I suggest you pop into a few of them before getting pissed off that we have a good thing here, and some of us want to keep it a good thing. This is also not a Subaru forum, and we haven't shunned you, so relax.

That being said, why should we go FWD here? If I want FWD knowledge, I can go to a FWD forum. They already exist. I don't want it forced down my throat, and neither do some others here.

When I want advice on my 72 Cutlass, I go to a forum for 70 - 72 Cutlass. Should they then allow the people with FWD Olds Achieva's on their forum, or allow it to span out to literally decades, where the information gets to be too much to deal with, and the search feature becomes moot?

Steven Benner · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 24, 2008, 03:45:13 am »

So far the consensus seems to be that you guys don't dislike the newer celica owners, you just feel they somehow "dilute" the community.

If this forum is "dedicated" to anything it is 3rd gen Celica's. But some old timers might still remember that this forum started as a spin-off of the OCC (Old Celica Club) mailing list. So it was always open to all classic celicas.

We just never really got any membership from the 1st and 2nd gen community, because there is a far more popular forum for them. Following this logic, 1st gen owners should be rejected because they belong over at classic-celica.com. However, even the OCC web site has forums for the newer generations. Though, they do seem a bit, lonely.

Quote

... This web site is my tribute to the Toyota Celica. More so the 1983 model with the GT-S package. ...

"More so" does not mean "exclusively". That text is a hold over from 2000, when this site was nothing more than a project page for my car. Before I even thought about putting up a forum. Anyone remember when the site looked like this?

From what I have seen, owners of modern celica's signing up has been a rare thing. Granted I'm not around enough to really say.

If we were to get more traffic from them I would split the forums up into generations. All current forums would be placed in a 2nd-3rd generation group. Newer generations would get their own fresh, new forums. You would never have to deal with them at all if you didnt want.

Remember the beta I did some months back? This was the direction I was planning on taking the site. But members were worried that these forums would loose their personality if I did that. So I put the idea on hold. I may still do it one day.

From a purely admin/site-owner perspective, anything I can do to grow this site is beneficial to everyone involved. More people, more content, more user interaction, better content-rank/page-rank on googe, more new members, etc. These are all good things, from an admin view.

Personally I would LOVE to have some membership representing the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th AND 7th gen celi's. But I'm not the active member I used to be. I took a step back when these forums changed to this new format. The community owns this site, I just keep it alive and guide it in the direction I think best (while artfully trying to piss off as few people possible). The content I wrote over half a decade ago is less than 1% of the total activity on this site.

So I will listen to the few of you who want to speak on this, and try to guess what the others are feeling. Then weigh that with what I think is best for this site and the community.

TL;DR i'm not convinced yet.