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Author Topic: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap  (Read 17356 times)

Offline corax

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Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« on: Mar 23, 2017, 02:22:27 am »
note: since all the pics in my build thread got lost, I decided to condense the engine swap here with new pic links.  if it reads funny, it's probably because the text was mostly copy/paste from the original posts.
IT YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, DO NOT QUOTE AN ENTIRE POST  - THEY ARE LONG AND WILL TAKE UP AN UNNECESSARY AMOUNT OF ROOM IN THE THREAD 

The 5th gen 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS (Breakthough Engine Advanced Mechanicals) is a “square engine” with a 86mm bore and 86mm stroke making it well suited to higher revs (factory limited to ~7,800rpm).

From the 3SGE Wikipedia page] the Wikipedia 3S engine page
Quote
In 1998, the fifth version of the 3S-GE was released, found only in the Japanese-delivered Altezza RS200. The 'Black Top' as it came to be referred to as, was fitted with a dual VVT system that adjusted timing on both intake and exhaust camshafts and came in two different spec levels dependent on which transmission it was coupled to.
The MT version that came equipped with the J160 6-speed manual transmission featured larger diameter titanium intake valves measuring 35mm, larger exhaust valves measuring 29.5mm also made from titanium, a larger 33mm bucket and a compression ratio of 11.5:1. It made 210 PS (154 kW; 207 hp) at 7,600 rpm and 22.0 kg·m (216 N·m) at 6,400 rpm.
Compared to the MT version, the 5-speed AT version came equipped with the A650E Tiptronic automatic transmission and had a lower compression ratio of 11.1:1, a less aggressive cam profile, smaller steel-alloy valves and smaller 31mm buckets. This engine made 200 PS (147 kW; 197 hp) at 7,000 rpm and 22.0 kg·m (216 N·m) at a considerably lower 4,800 rpm. Externally, the AT model can be identified by differences in the wiring loom and the lack of an acoustic blanket on the intake plenum.


More info can also be found at the BEAMS Owner’s Group page

The 6 speed manual transmission that comes with the rear wheel drive version is an Aisin J160 model, also called the AZ6 and used in the S15 Silvia, RX8, and 6spd Miata.  Gear ratios for the various models are as follows:
S15 6 spd 3.626 2.200 1.541 1.213 1.000 0.767
NISMO 2.907 1.989 1.537 1.218 1.000 0.862
RX8 6 spd 3.760 2.269 1.645 1.187 1.000 0.843
Miata 6-spd 99- 3.760 2.269 1.645 1.257 1.000 0.843
SXE10 6 sp 3.874 2.175 1.484 1.223 1.000 0.869  <- J160 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS
TRD 3.106 2.175 1.585 1.223 1.000 0.869
(Interestingly, the .767 6th gear ratio from a S15 has been found to work in the J160 trans for a better overdrive gear)
Whereas the 5 spd W58 trans gearing is: 3.285 1.894 1.275 1.00 .783
So, obviously the J160 is geared lower.  The J160 also weighs 97 pounds where the W58 weighs 87 pounds.
Here’s how the gear spread looks plotted out



In early May I got a delivery at work.  Note the "G1" sticker on the timing cover (partially torn off on my engine).  G1 and G3 all came with a manual trans.  G2 and G4 were auto trans engines (see above for the differences).  In addition, the ignition coils and how they are wired are different between G1 and G3


wiring is 90% complete.  I like the way Toyota designed this.  I was able to wire the entire swap without needing the engine present.  When I drop the engine in, there are 3 connectors to the ECU (engine sensors & controls)+ 2 other connectors (mainly powers and grounds as well as the is300 cluster outputs) and it should run.
This is the wiring diagram which I found most helpful





These are the 2 ECU connectors which connect to the rest of the vehicle – all the circuits on the other 3 go to the engine.  The letter in the circle under the connector diagram corresponds to the connector letter in the wiring diagram above, just below that is the connector shell part number.


In addition, there are 3 junction connectors in the ECU box which need to be addressed.  Here they are


I was able to find an engine/trans that came with the ECU box, which is kinda rare, so it'll be a fairly clean looking install


I don’t need an A/C compressor, but I am keeping the power steering, so I hacked up the original A/C bracket a bit


And made this adapter to support the tensioner pulley (the A/C bracket did this originally)


I dragged the car to the shop and spent the day there
I probably had the engine in and out a half dozen times . . .


 . . . till I realized all the threads I saw about NEEDING a subframe spacer were correct.  The spacer is necessary for trans tunnel clearance.  The other REALLY tight spot is the hydraulic fittings in the middle on the back side of the power steering rack.
Not having any 1" thick material on hand, I made a HomeDepot run.  1/16" wall 1" square tubing will hold up, right?  I eventually got some 1” aluminum to make proper spacers.  Ebay is a good source for this


Took awhile, but I finally got it into position and made my engine mounts




trans mount wasn't too bad - I'll make a custom tube creation later.  I drilled out 4 spot welds on either side of the part that the mount bolts onto, drilled new holes for the 3S mount, and welded it into its new location (yes, it's on a slight angle, so is the engine)


And welded together.


plenty of oil pan clearance.  In stock configuration, the 3S sits with about a 3 degree tilt to the driver side and the bottom of the oil pan would be level with the ground. The way it sits now, the intake is at the same height as the valve cover and creates less hood clearance issues - only took a little bit of rubber mallet work to clearance the underhood supports, and that was only necessary at the very front edge of the valve cover.



« Last Edit: Mar 23, 2017, 02:55:20 am by corax »
'85 RA64 Celica GT notchback

Offline corax

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #1 on: Mar 23, 2017, 02:23:28 am »
not really much clearance on the P/S rack lines.  It's hard to see, but look at the black painted line, not the fitting coming out of the rack, there's probably only 1/4" clearance to the oil pan.  I might try to convert these to a banjo fitting to make a bit more room, I'd really like to keep power steering.  I ended up leaving 1 oil pan-trans bolt out for now.  I recently had a better thought on how I could possibly lower the engine, thereby reducing the thickness of the subframe spacer while still creating more clearance for the PS line – still need to look into that at some point.


transmission is about as far back as I want to push it.  There's only a .5 degree difference between the trans output shaft and the rear diff pinion flange, so I don't expect any driveline vibration from mismatched angles.  This also leaves me with just enough space for the heater hoses (center of firewall) and I don’t need the SQ Engineering Slimline Rear Housing (the rear housing is a cylinder head oil drain and also takes care of some coolant routing)


the original 22RE W series trans clutch slave bolted on with no problem and works fine


bought some mandrel bends from http://www.mandrelbends.com/  to route the exhaust around the steering shaft




upper radiator hose was easy, cut the stock hose and bridge the 2 ends with a piece of 1.375" OD stainless pipe from my new favorite place, Metal Supermarkets (BTW, 2 pieces of 1x2x8 solid 6061 aluminum for subframe spacers = < $20)


lower radiator hose was even easier, it's the stock 22RE lower hose, didn't even have to trim it to fit


This took a bit of creativity.  The 22RE took about 2.5" of cable pull to go from idle to wide open throttle (WOT), the 3S takes 1.5" of cable pull.  The stock Celica pedal travels just over 2.5" to pull that 2.5" of cable (a 1.1:1 pedal ratio).  To prevent damage to the new throttle body, I needed to change the pedal ratio (distance from the pedal attachment to the pivot VS. the cable attachment to the pivot).  My first thought was to try to find and/or make a bigger throttle body pulley, but the 3S piece is a molded plastic affair with built in throttle stop - wasn't sure I could find what I need.  I ended up shortening the pedal assembly just below the cable attachment and also moved the pivot up higher,  I think it's about a 1.8:1 ratio now - pedal travel is the same at over 2.5" but it only pulls 1.5" of cable, the pedal is also about an inch higher than it was before and more even with the brake pedal.  I don’t even notice the difference when driving.


This took entirely too long to figure out, but the 2-1 section of the header is mostly done.  There's maybe a finger width clearance between the steering shaft and the exhaust, that's about as good as I could get it after many many versions of this piece.  I left a short straight section just tack welded so I can get in there with a drum sander or flap wheel to smooth/blend the sections together a bit better.  Then I finish welded it and filled it with water to see if there are any pin-holes in my welds before cutting the tip off the merge collector and welding a 2.25" pipe stub and flange onto it. 




the bottom part of the header is finished and mounted in the car
merge collector with the oxygen sensor installed - this is all just above the frame rails, so if anything gets damaged, it'll be something that is easier to fix/replace than this piece



so pretty and getting much closer to firing it off


https://youtu.be/FPTvA3w1KsA

First start-up.  Well, actually, the second time I started it.  First time was by accident when I was final testing the starter circuit and forgot that the coils & injectors were energized. 
It has a pretty healthy hesitation off idle but seems to pick up after a few seconds.  There may be an issue with the MAF sensor adapter size or I may just need to run it up to temp a few times so it can learn adaptive trims. 

Exhaust is 95% finished, just need a pair of 2.25" pipe flanges to join the middle pipe to the part which goes over the axle.  It was pieced together using less than 2 full 180 degree mandrel bent pipes and a bit of straight pipe.  Even got it to tuck up nice and tight to the body

Here you can kinda see the fresh air side of the PCV hooked up to the silicone elbow using the silicone port system kit from SiliconeIntakes.com - lets you put a hole in any flexible intake and add a 1/2" NPT port, in my case, a 1/2" hose barb


cable lace all the harnesses!  this ties all the wires together making a neat bundle which is more resistant to vibration induced failure - how to: http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/
Lacing the harness serves the same purpose as wrapping it with electrical tape before you put the flex loom on, but without any of the nasty adhesive residue if you ever have to take it apart.   Factory harnesses have a widely spaced wrap of low adhesive electrical tape running the length of the wire bundle inside the flex loom to do the same thing.  Corrugated flex loom is for abrasion resistance of the wire bundle and to keep it out of the elements, wires should still be tied up inside the loom though.  You can also use plastic wire ties, but then you have a bunch of bulky sharp tie ends to deal with

Here’s a quick progression of the interior harness.  The original engine harness can likely be adapted for the BEAMS swap relatively easy, but I had a couple things I wanted to change or improve.  So I completely disassembled and rebuilt the harness to my own specs
Still have to make a shifter cover (reusing the RA64 rubber boot, need to make the tower), get hoses made for the power steering (banjo bolts on the rack to increase clearance), new radiator (stock one, which I wanted to use, has a slow leak), and then I think it'll be daily-drivable as I figure out the smaller details


« Last Edit: Mar 23, 2017, 02:36:49 am by corax »
'85 RA64 Celica GT notchback

Offline corax

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #2 on: Mar 23, 2017, 02:24:25 am »
harness covered, taped, and ready to put the fenders back on

Excellent reference if you need custom hoses, and easier than taking a tape measure to every parts store until you find what might work

Scroll down to pg 46 - pictures of all the Gates hoses are listed in order by inside diameter
http://www.gates.com/~/media/files/gates/automotive/catalogs/automotive/gates-molded-coolant-hose-id-guide_web.pdf?la=en

FedEx dropped off my eBay/Amazon Miata $120 radiator today 
This looks like a whole lot more radiator than the old one, it’s 2 core, 2 3/8" thick and lighter by a few pounds



Mounting was simple.  I'm going to use 2 u-bent pieces of steel with some rubber cushion to hold the bottom tank.  The upper mounts use the stock radiator mounts - open them up just slight bit with a drum sander in a Dremel and reuse the 22RE radiator upper rubber grommets with the metal inserts.  Bolt that to a simple 90 degree bracket fastened to the side of the radiator opening and done.


My Contour fans also fit surprisingly well.  This fan was originally cut up to fit the 22RE radiator.  Uncut, it would cover the entire radiator and you could use the bolt bosses that are already on the radiator to mount it (just drill a couple holes in the fan shroud)


All mounted up - waiting on some Aeroquip hose and JIC (-AN) fittings to mate my steering rack to the BEAMS power steering pump and it should be ready to drive (well, I need a PS reservoir also, but that should go quickly)



Food for thought, running the intake like that will give you running issues without some sort of way to straighten the air flow to the MAF sensor on the stock ECU, Yamaha heavily designed the intake flow with the airbox in mind, at low speed throttle and cruising the airbox acted as a "restrictor" to allow the air to flow more smoothly past the MAF sensor and it has a flapper door that naturally opens up when the motor is running at WOT for optimal power and some crazy Yamaha resonance tuning velocity wizardry. Running a tube with no way to straighten out the airflow pisses off the factory ecu otherwise haha. 

Scroll to the bottom and check out the November 2005 post http://www.billzilla.org/AE863SGE.htm

These threads are also worth a read.
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=105671
http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/threads/71300-3SGE-BEAMS-running-lean

Those are both good threads/sources of info - I've done a lot of reading before I bought the engine to see what I was getting into. 
This was just the simple cheap way to get it up and running before the warranty ran out on the engine.  The MAF adapter tube is 71mm ID (I've read the stock ID is either 70mm or 72mm), but my fuel trims were still way positive - about 20% if you combine short term and long term.  Since I disconnect the battery often, every time I get in, the ECU has to relearn the fuel maps.  So there's some work to be done, my goal is to get it dialed in to where there is minimal learning that has to be done after a battery disconnect.  I tried the honeycomb mesh from a pilfered GM MAF sensor, but that didn't change anything (also tried the mesh without a filter to see if the cheap cone was affecting anything).  Eventually, I want a better MAF tube, but the good ones are $60-$80.  For now, I put an insert into the tube in front of the MAF to neck the ID down to 60mm and that brought my fuel trims down to 5% +/-.   I've also been kicking around an idea I have about using a velocity stack with a tall round air filter.

too much typing, not enough pics - so here's the engine bay the way it sits now   
(the coils of wire next to the driver side fuse/relay box are spare wires that I ran into the interior for future use)


Another little bit I figured out.  I've heard several people say this piece, which sits in the throttle body opening, opens an air passage when it's cold for cold idle air. Never made sense to me since that's not necessary with electronic throttle. What it does do is open to allow coolant flow ONLY when it's cold enough for the throttle body to potentially ice up. In other words, normal outside temps, it's closed and no coolant flows through the throttle body. I put it in my freezer and the passage opened up, let it get warm, and it closed. So, no need to ever contemplate looping the hoses together to bypass the TB.

(not my pic, but to get a sense of its location)


Got my power steering sorted a little while ago.  Less than $100 for a custom power steering hose, just had to spend a few minutes to put it together. It's pretty easy, there are a bunch of tutorials online on how to assemble JIS or AN fittings.
AN-6 is fine for the high pressure power steering line. My RA64 steering rack high pressure hose inlet is 16mmx1.5, so are most of the Toyota power steering pumps that I've seen. Make sure to use STEEL hose ends specifically for Aeroquip AQP. A bit of teflon tape on the inverted flare fitting threads is cheap insurance. Funny thing - the power steering pump on my 3S originally had a banjo fitting, but it has an inverted flare seat in the banjo bolt hole and the inverted flare adapter fitting sealed just fine. So, flare fitting adapters on the pump and rack, figure out what angle hose fittings you need (I used a 45 & a 90 degree), and put it all together. Parts links:
- https://www.summitracing.com/parts/brg-925121/overview/
- https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aer-fcg0606/overview/
- https://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/aeroquip/product-line/aeroquip-reusable-hose-ends/hose-end-size/minus-6-an/fitting-material/steel

rack connection

PS pump connection


I've been fighting the MAF housing for awhile. Using the 3" Spectre 87051 MAF adapter, my fuel trims would max out (adapter ID too large) and it would bog down at anything under WOT. Worst still, was that any time I reset the ECU (I use my battery disconnect) it would take several miles to relearn trims and run like dog crap until it did. Being the cheap f%$* that I am, I found a 2.5" white PVC pipe coupler was a near perfect fit into the Spectre adapter (with a couple wraps of tape to make up the difference and prevent it from rattling around) and necks the ID down to 60mm. Now, my fuel trims are at -10% at idle and hover within 5% at medium throttlecruise + there's no weird drivability or bogging down after an ECU reset.  Onlne resources say the MAF ID should be 70mm, but I think it needs to be a bit smaller than that - I'd like to find something around 65mm, which I think would be ideal.



The MAF part number is 22204-21010 and was used on many different vehicles.  It's important it faces the correct way, so check the pictures - generally speaking, the connector wires will be facing the front of the vehicle if the sensor is on top of the tube
This is a partial interchange list, it was also used on some Mazdas, Volvos and, I think, Jaguars
Quote
LEXUS   ES300   1999-2001
LEXUS   RX300   1999-2003
SCION   TC   2005
TOYOTA   4RUNNER   1999-2002
TOYOTA   AVALON   2000-2004
TOYOTA   CAMRY   2002-2004
TOYOTA   HIGHLANDER   2001-2005
TOYOTA   SIENNA   2001-2003
TOYOTA   SOLARA   2002-2004
TOYOTA   TACOMA   1999-2004
TOYOTA   TUNDRA   2000-2004


« Last Edit: Mar 23, 2017, 02:49:20 am by corax »
'85 RA64 Celica GT notchback

Offline corax

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #3 on: Mar 23, 2017, 02:25:41 am »
getting the Altezza / IS300 cluster to work with the stock sending unit:
the AE86 fuel sender works on 0-110ohm scale, so does my RA64 sending unit and I got mine to work fine with the IS300 cluster - not perfect, but good enough so I know when I need to fuel up. the Altezza uses (2) 55 ohm sending units wired in series because it uses a "saddle bag" type tank but it uses the same 0-110 ohm scale.
The stock sending unit has one wire from the gauge (and possibly one for a low fuel warning, don't use that wire), and another wire going to ground (possibly up near the driver front kick panel) - both of these wires need to go to the IS300 body control module (BCM). The IS300 BCM is clipped onto the driver front fuse box, try to get one with the connectors on the side and more than an inch or two of wire (to make connections easier to make).
Quote
FUEL GAUGE OPERATION (copy/paste)
(copy/paste of the cluster operation)
Fuel Gauge, Low Fuel Warning Light
1) Fuel Gauge To minimize the fluctuation of the fuel gauge needle while driving up or down hill cornering, the position of the fuel gauge needle of the IS300 is determined by calculating the residual fuel data that is sent from the fuel sender to the meter ECU, and the fuel consumption data that is sent from the ECM to the meter ECU. In addition, a sender gauge is connected inline and placed inside the fuel tank to effect an accurate measurement of the residual volume of fuel.
2) Low Fuel Level Warning Light The warning indication is effected in accordance with the data that has been computed by the meter ECU, which contains minimal display fluctuation. Thus, the variance in the operation of the warning indicator light when the residual volume is low is minimized so that it illuminates with precise timing (when the residual volume is 10-liter or less) to alert the driver.
3) Fuel Residual Volume System Warning a. For Abnormal Fuel Injection Signal Input If an abnormal condition (open circuit, detached connector, abnormal signals, etc.) occurs in the multiplex communication data input for the fuel injection duration, this function flashes the low fuel level warning light to inform the driver of the abnormal condition. Even in this case, the system continues to detect the residual volume of fuel in the fuel tank, thus displaying the residual volume of fuel on the gauge in the normal manner (although the fluctuation of the pointer may increase slightly). b. For Abnormal Fuel Tank Residual Volume Signal Input If an abnormal condition (open circuit, detached connector, abnormal signals, etc.) occurs in the multiplex communication data input for the fuel tank residual volume, this function causes the pointer to move to “E” (empty) and flashes the low fuel level warning light to inform the driver of the abnormal condition. If abnormal conditions “a” and “b” occur simultaneously, abnormal condition “b” takes precedence.
Quote

first pic is the stock wiring for my '85 RA64, I imagine AE86 is probably the same. The ground wire from the stock sending unit on mine was brown - make sure you use the correct wire, use the wiring diagram and ohm it out to be sure.
second pic is the 2 connectors on either side of the BCM. Connector on the left will be where you make the fuel sending unit connections.
third pic is the BCM connector which clips directly into the IS300 fuse box, there is no separate connector, you will need to figure out how to make these connections. All the power wires can be connected together to a single fuse, it doesn't need much power, 10A should be more than enough.
fourth pic is how the multiplex system is connected together, just bypass the theft deterrent module connection. These are all orange and blue 22 ga wires to and from the BEAMS wiring - it just makes a loop through all the modules
wire on the right is for the low fuel level warning, not needed


pin 1= White SIL wire, pin 5=Blue MPX2 wire, pin 19=chassis ground

Pins 2, 3, & 4 are power supply - - pin 7 is Orange MPX2 wire

Here’s the whole multiplex system and how it’s laid out with the BCM

'85 RA64 Celica GT notchback

Offline KrowzerST165

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #4 on: Mar 24, 2017, 03:24:25 pm »
AWESOME WORK!!! Thank you for posting!

Offline Sigma Projects

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #5 on: Mar 24, 2017, 04:22:15 pm »
Nice, this should be a sticky honestly.
1984 Celica GT Coupe    sold and missed it
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Offline swan song

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #6 on: Mar 24, 2017, 05:18:10 pm »
Oh, it will be. No denying that. Question to Corax though- with the subframe spacers, did you notice a severe change in the mac strut arm angles? Spacing the subframe down should cause those to angle downward, which puts roll center below ground, but if you run taller springs (or just ride height) it might correct the issue. Asking this more for myself and others that may not realize this in the future.
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Offline corax

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #7 on: Mar 25, 2017, 01:07:51 am »
Oh, it will be. No denying that. Question to Corax though- with the subframe spacers, did you notice a severe change in the mac strut arm angles? Spacing the subframe down should cause those to angle downward, which puts roll center below ground, but if you run taller springs (or just ride height) it might correct the issue. Asking this more for myself and others that may not realize this in the future.

With the small amount of lift I have, the control arms are almost level with the ground or maybe slightly lower at the hub end of things. 
My thought, if I can get a hold of a spare subframe, is to slot the subframe holes and move it forward an inch in the chassis.  That should allow me to lower the engine, relative to the subframe, and get rid of the spacers (or maybe reduce the spacer thickness).  Moving the steering rack forward, relative to the steering arm, will have a side effect on Ackerman Angle as well (I think it reduces Ackerman).  I might also need to move the control arm mounts back a bit - that's why I want a spare subframe, so I can take a good look at it on the bench
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Offline Sigma Projects

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #8 on: Mar 25, 2017, 06:05:18 pm »
why not get some roll center adjusters?
1984 Celica GT Coupe    sold and missed it
1983 Celica GT Coupe    attacked... will miss it (RIP) JY
1982 Celica GT Liftback  sold and won't miss it, lol
1985 Celica GT Coupe    new love =P

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Offline corax

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #9 on: Mar 26, 2017, 12:25:04 am »
why not get some roll center adjusters?

With 1" subframe spacers & 1 inch (or slightly less) of lift, my roll center should be close to the same as stock the way it sits now. 

My issue is that with the subframe spacers, the subframe is pushed 1" closer to the ground (loss of ground clearance without a change in vehicle height).  Which means I'm more likely to drag the skid plate or subframe if I drop a tire into a rut in the dirt.  So I turned the coilover adjusters up to gain back some clearance (which also puts my RC back to "normal").  If I can reduce the thickness of the subframe spacer, I can reduce how much height is cranked into the coilovers with no real loss of undercarriage clearance and still maintain a roll center close to stock. 

The very front of the valve cover is just barely touching the underside of the hood right now (underside bracing is hammered flat).  I can't remember if I have enough trans tunnel clearance to do this, but my other thought was to use a small cowl induction scoop or something similar to create a "Gurney Bubble" over the front of the engine and just reduce the subframe spacers that way (less spacer, engine comes up in the engine bay, and sits just above the hood line).
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Offline rwdfreak

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #10 on: Mar 26, 2017, 02:38:41 am »
I love this build thread and the swap looks really good with nice attention to detail. Just one thing I noticed is the clearance between the rack and the exhaust. When cornering hard and throttle wide open, my exhaust was touching the steering yoke which was causing it to stick while turning. If you do not have poly steering rack bushing I would suggest you get extra clearance by banging the shit out of the pipe. As seen on youtube, banging an exhaust for clearance seems to have very little effect on power :-)

Not sure if scoops look good on our cars but maybe something like a MKII hood would look nice. That or just open a hole and put a clear cover to see the Cam gears spin.

Otherwise keep up the good work.
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Offline swan song

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #11 on: Mar 26, 2017, 03:22:38 am »
That's why I'm going to attempt to put my 1uz exhaust between the engine and the steering rack.
1985 celica GT , 191k.
Want a low budget LSD? http://www.celica-gts.com/forums/index.php?topic=29189.0

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Offline Sigma Projects

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #12 on: Mar 26, 2017, 08:56:28 pm »
With 1" subframe spacers & 1 inch (or slightly less) of lift, my roll center should be close to the same as stock the way it sits now. 

My issue is that with the subframe spacers, the subframe is pushed 1" closer to the ground (loss of ground clearance without a change in vehicle height).  Which means I'm more likely to drag the skid plate or subframe if I drop a tire into a rut in the dirt.  So I turned the coilover adjusters up to gain back some clearance (which also puts my RC back to "normal").  If I can reduce the thickness of the subframe spacer, I can reduce how much height is cranked into the coilovers with no real loss of undercarriage clearance and still maintain a roll center close to stock. 

The very front of the valve cover is just barely touching the underside of the hood right now (underside bracing is hammered flat).  I can't remember if I have enough trans tunnel clearance to do this, but my other thought was to use a small cowl induction scoop or something similar to create a "Gurney Bubble" over the front of the engine and just reduce the subframe spacers that way (less spacer, engine comes up in the engine bay, and sits just above the hood line).

Ah ok, yea I didn't think it was that big of a deal, but forgot you take your car off road. That sounds pretty ideal, I wonder if a eclipse bubble is big enough for your idea, would be cheap to sawzall one from a wrecker.
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Offline ozzie

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #13 on: Mar 27, 2017, 12:48:02 am »
I vote custom subframe, and designing it for double A arm front suspension :heh:
'84 Celica GT - 261k mi

Offline corax

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Re: Corax's 3SGE Blacktop BEAMS swap
« Reply #14 on: Mar 27, 2017, 01:12:58 am »
. . . clearance between the rack and the exhaust.

 . . . Not sure if scoops look good on our cars . . . just open a hole

Thanks, good looking out.  The picture's a little deceiving - I have about 3/4" between the exhaust and the steering shaft.  Between the poly rack bushings and poly engine mount on the driver side, I haven't experienced any binding or or weird steering, even on the few times when I slid full boogie slideways into a berm or rut.  Just went out to double check, the paint hasn't been rubbed or scratched where it gets close :)

I thought about just leaving the valve cover poking through the hood - kinda like a Jap version of the old shaker hoods

I vote custom subframe, and designing it for double A arm front suspension :heh:

I've been thinking about using a Miata front subframe/suspension on the AW11 Stratos project if/when I ever get that far



. . . I wonder if a eclipse bubble is big enough for your idea, would be cheap to sawzall one from a wrecker.

this is kinda what I'm thinking.  The scoop is one I've had laying around for awhile, it even follows the existing hood lines nicely and might be all that I need.  It'll have to wait though - Saturday is the next race, and unfortunately, I'll be installing new 7.5" 4.11:1 rear gears instead (short story: nothing broke, had a bit of whine from the used gears which were in there, swapped the LSD into another used center section and got bad noises that I really don't like even though everything looked fine when I set them up)


'85 RA64 Celica GT notchback

 

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