help getting the new 85 hatch going

[oilspot]

 So I picked up this little hatchback for $300. Seems like it was taken really good care of. Previous owner said it ran great before he parked it, however there were quite a few fuses on the drivers side floorboard and the fuse access was opened. (I posted a few pics in the introduction section, still not sure if they're visable).  So I put a fresh battery and gas in it and proceed to try to start it. I bumped a little bit of starting fluid in it and didn't get a single studder. So I'm thinking theres an ignition problem, and from the fuses on the drivers floorboard I'm guessing this is why it was parked and left for dead for the last few years. Soo.....

I'm in the process of figuring out how to get spark. From the little I know of the 22re the ignitior can fail without warning. I just got a manual so I'll be running the test procedures to see if it's good. The fuses in the engine bay all check out. I don't see any obvious freyed wires from the distributor to the ignitor/ coil.  Now i read (on yotatech) that a bad distributor cap or rotor will give a no spark situation. I've got to be honest. I've never had a cap/ rotor replacement revive a car. It usually results in a better running car but I've never had either cause failure.  I don't wanna throw any money at this car at this point because i'm not sure if the motors any good. I got a smoking deal on the car, I know, but I just went through a divorce in the last year and it's left me tight as a frogs ass!

Any ideas of other things to check, etc that I'm not thinking of?

[ozzie]

A lot of fuses blown? Do you remember what they went to? Does anything else, like the headlights, work?

Here's what I'm thinking: if you put a battery in backwards, which on my car was really easy to do because both cables were black, you'll pop a bunch of fuses, and I also blew a protection diode in the ECU, so the ECU fuse would blow every time the car was turned on. I also fried the headlight retract relay, so my headlights now don't go up/down properly, when I actually get to working on the car I'll be replacing that (with something slightly different, I think). There are also a pair of fusible links in the fuse box, those didn't blow on my car, but lots of other folks have had problems with them frying just from age.

Going back to getting spark, what have you done? Does the tach move while cranking? Have you checked the distributor cap and rotor?

[oilspot]

A lot of fuses blown? Do you remember what they went to? Does anything else, like the headlights, work?

Here's what I'm thinking: if you put a battery in backwards, which on my car was really easy to do because both cables were black, you'll pop a bunch of fuses, and I also blew a protection diode in the ECU, so the ECU fuse would blow every time the car was turned on. I also fried the headlight retract relay, so my headlights now don't go up/down properly, when I actually get to working on the car I'll be replacing that (with something slightly different, I think). There are also a pair of fusible links in the fuse box, those didn't blow on my car, but lots of other folks have had problems with them frying just from age.

Going back to getting spark, what have you done? Does the tach move while cranking? Have you checked the distributor cap and rotor?

I'll be honest. I never even checked the interior fuses (haven't really had a good chance to mess with the car since I've got it last weekend). I didn't figure there would be any of the interior fuses that would keep the car from running, and I assumed that the PO had already replaced any interior fuses trying to get the car going. Anyhow, everything seems to work on the car (lights, signals, wipers, etc.), all except the fuel guage. I added about 4 gallons to the car and the needle didn't move.

As far as the tach moving when trying to start, I don't believe it moved at all. I'd have to say that I'm 99% sure of that but may try checking that out on my way out today. Oh I wish I had the time right now to work on this thing a little more. I'm in the process I've getting my 14 year old son + his dirtbike ready for motocross racing this weekend. (so I'm putting aside messing with my new toy to make sure he's ready to play with his... ah being a father.)

[oilspot]

Well i did the igniter test (volt ohm/ 1.5v battery). The voltage i should see was 5-8 volts.... I got nothing! So it looks like i need an ignitor.
dealership said $89. I'm gonna post a wanted ad, again, $89 isn't bad but I don't know if the engines worth a damn and don't wanna throw $89 down the toilet.
 here's a link to my wtb ad!
http://www.celica-gts.com/forums/index.php?topic=30561.0

[ozzie]

$89? That's actually a really good deal on an '85 igniter, aftermarket new is usually around $200. I would buy it, try it, and if it doesn't work, you can probably sell it here or on ebay for as much as or even more then you paid for it.

[oilspot]

 Iguess the person I talked to at the dealership the other day was mistaken. I called with the vin and this time they quoted me $700 on the igniter.

I've heard you can use a msd 6al box (or something of the sorts as the ignitor). Does anybody have any additional info on this conversion?

OR....... maybe use this method! Anybody have any experience with a gm ignitor conversion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAy2vHoa0Yg

[twotone_ra64]

I literally just did this conversion in my '84. I don't think it works with '85s because of the electronic advance distributors (TCCS).

[ozzie]

I literally just did this conversion in my '84. I don't think it works with '85s because of the electronic advance distributors (TCCS).

Exactly, and the 6al requires a working stock igniter to handle timing, then the coil output of the stock igniter connects to the 6al.

My thought is to look into what the differences are between late (85+) 22re igniters is. I honestly think you could just cut the plugs off your igniter and solder then into any year truck igniter. You may need to use the truck coil as well. The distributor pickup changed in 1990, idk if it was an electronic or just packaging change, but if you use one from a 91+ truck you may need to distributor as well. Still, it could work out easier/cheaper to grab all that from a junkyard or Craig's list part out then a new 85 celica one.

[oilspot]

Exactly, and the 6al requires a working stock igniter to handle timing, then the coil output of the stock igniter connects to the 6al.

My thought is to look into what the differences are between late (85+) 22re igniters is. I honestly think you could just cut the plugs off your igniter and solder then into any year truck igniter. You may need to use the truck coil as well. The distributor pickup changed in 1990, idk if it was an electronic or just packaging change, but if you use one from a 91+ truck you may need to distributor as well. Still, it could work out easier/cheaper to grab all that from a junkyard or Craig's list part out then a new 85 celica one.

I've got a good igniter/coil out of a 83' truck (22r)!?!?!? any chance that may work

[sirdan]

nope you need 85 or newer. Truck ones would most likely work if you cut the connector off like ozzie said. They rarely go bad so a junkyard one would probably be good.

[ozzie]

Needs to be 85+ and a 22re, 22r doesn't have an ecu to control timing advance, so the igniter is different.

[corax]

just cut the plugs off your igniter and solder then into any year truck igniter.

It's even easier than cut and solder.  They all use the same spade terminals, so back the terminals out of the truck connector shells (trucks use 2 connectors, Celica uses a single 5 pin), and insert them into the correct spot in the Celica connector.  Just draw a picture or mark what color wire went where in the Celica connector before taking terminals out (wire colors are even the same).  That's what I did with mine

[corax]

I can't remember if the connector you're playing with has male of female terminals - if it's male terminals, they will have a tang like this on them which needs to be pried up before you can pull them out.  A thick safety pin or "T" pin works well.


the female terminals may be the same, or you may have to pry a small plastic tab away from the terminal (can't remember).  Either way, be gingerly and don't force anything.  Sometimes pushing the terminal INTO the connector shell before you pry the tang or tab will make it a bit easier

[oilspot]

I thought I was to a point where the car may start. I was doing a bunch of other checks and in the process the starter stopped working. Now it just gives me a solid click and the dash/ clock dim down. So I jack the car up to slide under and bump the starter with a screwdriver. Looks like that's not quite so easy on these. Of course I was rushed and out of time.
This is driving me crazy! I've got zero time to work on this thing tomorrow and maybe none on saturday.

So.... any ideas of what else it could be in case bumping the starter doesn't work. I charged the battery and had it tested (it's good). Battery connections are good! connections on the starter look great (but I figure I'll clean them up when I get a chance).
Any other common trouble spots in the starting system on these cars?

I feel like an impatient kid. I just wanna hear my new toy run to see what I've got to work with. For some reason I've got high hopes with this little car!!

[Sigma Projects]

Screw driver won't work very well in knocking the starter, use a mallet or tire iron. Sounds like a sticking starter, is it a manual? Could push start it.