Front Brake Upgrades

[a2ndopinion]

I think we need a thread/sticky for all of the possible front brake upgrades, with pros and cons of each.

I did the original "Cressida Big Brake Upgrade" with help from "Zoomy" - my ex, https://www.celica-gts.com/forums/index.php?topic=22530.0, and there have been a few threads since then, listing possibilities. As nice as that is, especially since I was basically starting with a non-vented 2nd gen setup, I've managed to severely warp Brembo blank rotors, although that was towing my utility trailer, with a gross weight of 4,400 lbs, and I was leading a cruise, pushing it enough that "skudman" texted me, saying "Is this a cruise or a race? Slow the fuck down!"

I know that raptor racing has a Wilwood upgrade, but it's listed at over $1,000 - http://raptorracing.com/toyota/1982-1986-mkii-supra/mkii-brakes/mk2-big-brake-kit-parts/big-brake-kit-mk2-supra-complete-front?zenid=da68cbf3ed3a2f31f402973ae6f79304

"brett85p" mentioned "Z32 brake upgrade", but listed no specifics.

I have a friend from the old "classic-celica.com" forum who gave me a bunch of possibilities, and Wes - 85GTS has given me a few too. I remember WAY back when, Darin - "RWDCelicaDude" explained what he did for his V8 powered Celica.

Here's what my buddy "Garzini" sent me -

"Brakes / 5-lug upgrade:

Bigger brake upgrade.

The MA61/RA6x strut has 100mm caliper mount bolt spacing. This is shared by the Nissan Z32 4 piston fixed calipers (Z32 30MM ALUMINUM 1990 Twin-turbos and ALL 1991-1992.5 300ZX's) It uses a 280 x 30mm disk. (There is a year that used a 26 mm disk with a aluminum caliper, and there are 30 mm iron calipers as well)

And 1990-96 Infinity Q45 dual piston sliding calipers. It uses a 280 x x28 mm disk.

So both those calipers will bolt straight onto the strut.


The next option is 4 or 5 lug.

5 lug.

Early turbo Z31 5 lug hubs '84 to '89 use the same front bearings as the MA61/RA6x.

84-87 Z31 hubs have a disc setup that bolts the disc to the rear of the hub like the MA61/RA6x.

87-89 z31 hubs have a disk setup that is hat style and the disk slides over the hub.

(86-89 Mitsu Starion front hubs fit as well, but I don't know much about them )

The options are using the later hubs (Hat over) with the stock Z32 or Q45 disk, but having to make spacers for the calipers. The Z32 caliper are big boys, so pushing them out another 10mm might cause wheel interference.


The other 2 options are :

Using a 2005/6 PT cruiser disk 280 x 28mm and 84-87 rear mount hub , or a 1993 Mazda MPV (4wd) disk. 276 x 28mm and a 87-89 front mount hub

(Need to use brake pad shims if using the 30 mm Z32 caliper)

Both these disk setups require no caliper spacers."



Derek, can you help us out with this?

[twotone_ra64]

From what I've seen, the Z32 caliper upgrade uses the stock Celica caliper bracket with some slight modification, and Cressida rotors. ra65gts has done this upgrade.

Let's finalize the list and add more details, and then I can sticky it!

[swan song]

Of note too, the Z 32 lug pattern is 5 x 114.3. Which also happens to be the exact same lug pattern on a ford 8.8 rear end.
So are you guys saying A Z32 hub and caliper will fit a Cressida rotor? And the whole set up is bolt on?

[twotone_ra64]

I can't say for certain about the Z32 hub, just the Z32 caliper and Cressida rotor combo.

[a2ndopinion]

I really want 5 lug hubs, even if that means getting my Mk I axles redrilled. As I’ve said elsewhere, wheel selection goes way up with a 5 on 114.3 (4.5”), as it’s probably the most common lug pattern in the world. And also as I said above, I’ve managed to warp Cressida Brembo blanks, so would consider any hub that uses a bigger rotor that fits our spindle.

[Sigma Projects]

A previous member on here who did a LS1 swapped Celica came up with brackets for adapting Z32 Calipers with Z33 Track rotors. I jumped on the offer when he sold some of the brackets. The combination is Z31 Turbo hubs, Z32 Turbo caliper (aluminum is available) and Z33 Track rotors (12.76"). The brackets he made was because he found similarities between the way the calipers bolt up between the 240SX and our Celicas, so he found that by basically milling down the bracket into a flat piece it would work.

Knowing that there are better kits I think now so you could potentially get Z31 turbo hubs, modify the brackets and put on any of the numerous BBKs that are available for the 240SX. There's kits to use Infiniti brakes, CTS-V brakes, etc.

edit: Here are images for the brake swap I did. The 10lb weight of the caliper is for the iron version, I think the aluminum ones are nearly half the weight.
https://imgur.com/a/6oXCmuS

[a2ndopinion]

AJ, was that Darin - “RWDCelicadude”?

[Sigma Projects]

That name sounds right.

[sirdan]

I did the cressida rotor with some nissan turbo 2 piston caliper, its somewhere around the forum...

[Teranfirbt]

Don't forget that brakes work as a system. If you're serious about making a significant change to your front brakes, you'll also need to bump up the power of the rear brakes. If you keep the stock brakes but bump up the fronts a bunch, you'll actually lose overall braking power (even though you gain capacity) because the fronts will lock well before the rears are doing anything. 80's Toyotas in general have this issue, and can really benefit from a rear brake upgrade than is bigger than the fronts, to get the balance right.

Also, making sticky, so that this whole post isn't me being a debbie downer

[swan song]

Don't forget that brakes work as a system. If you're serious about making a significant change to your front brakes, you'll also need to bump up the power of the rear brakes. If you keep the stock brakes but bump up the fronts a bunch, you'll actually lose overall braking power (even though you gain capacity) because the fronts will lock well before the rears are doing anything. 80's Toyotas in general have this issue, and can really benefit from a rear brake upgrade than is bigger than the fronts, to get the balance right.

Also, making sticky, so that this whole post isn't me being a debbie downer

He’s right, and it also works in reverse. When the ford axle went in, I upgraded to massive 13” drums in the rear. With the stock braking prop valve, the rears would lock first! Had to get the adjustable prop valve to make things evened out. This is also why I’m lookin at a front upgrade.

[a2ndopinion]

Thank you Teranfirbt!
For myself, I have the Mk I Supra diff, so have upgraded to rear discs anyway. Anyone ever upgraded them?
I’m also adding weight to the front end, so increased front braking (to an extent) won’t be a bad thing, as I don’t think I can redistribute enough to ever equal it all out, although I’ll try.

[Teranfirbt]

Brake balance depends pretty heavily on F/R weight distribution and CG height. F/R is pretty easy to get, but CG height takes more work.

[revvhappy]

If you're up for a little machine work and have wheels that are larger than 15", the following setup works. I have used this on my 1985 Supra  (with Celica GTS strut housings) for almost 20,000 endurance race miles. My wheels are 17x9 with +15 offset. The front hubs are machined to allow "rotor-over hub" mounting rather than "captured" rotors. It makes swapping rotors a simple process.

Z32 Aluminum 30mm caliper. Most 1992 models used this version. These bolt up with no modification necessary.
1992 Mazda MPV minivan front rotors. Centric 121-45044: re-drilled to fit 4-lug pattern.
Longer studs. Dorman 610-414.
Hubcentric rings - 60.1-73mm.
Nissan 240sx braided steel lines fit perfectly from the OE hard brake line.


1. Have the outer edge of the front hub flanges shaved down to 140mm diameter. This allows external rotor mounting but adds about 10mm of "offset thickness" and longer studs are needed.



2. Re-drill rotors for 4-lug pattern. A friend made me this cool jig so I can drill a rotor in about 2 minutes on the drill press (1/2" holes).



3. Install hub centric rings, then rotors over the hub from the outside.

4. Install the calipers.



5. Install 240sx lines.

[Sigma Projects]

that's looking nice