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Author Topic: Comprehensive Sra Suspension Tuning Guide  (Read 68959 times)

Offline GtEunuch

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« on: Mar 10, 2006, 11:35:16 pm »
Okay guys here is every thing that i know.... Starting with the basic suspension work

Basic Suspension ( great for daily, good for light autocross use aswell )

Tokico HP ( blues )

http://www.tokicogasshocks.com/

Great shock for the price, perfect match for the Dobinsons or a basic coilover setup. Good stiffness over stock, great traction, and once again you cant really beat them for the price. I have been running these for about 3 years now, and i am still happy with them.


Dobinsons Coil Springs

http://www.185performance.com/zen/index.ph...roducts_id=3107
http://www.185performance.com/zen/index.ph...roducts_id=3106

Linear Rate
Appx 20-30 mm lower than stock
Appx 25% stiffer than stock

These springs would lower your car between .79-1.18 inches from stock. This drop may not be incredibly noticable because 20 year old stock springs may have already sagged this far. But these, coupled with good shocks, would net you a noticable increase in handling performance. Highly reccomended for you guys that want a slightly more aggressive stance and increased handling perfomance.

This would be a good stopping point if you just want to go basic with your suspension set up. Your car should handle GREAT now.

This is just the first installment, speak up if you guys want me to continue...

84' Celica GT ( 84 F Street Prepared )
Representing GT Liftbacks since August 2002

Offline WolfBoy

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« Reply #1 on: Mar 11, 2006, 01:17:18 am »
I'm speaking up.   ;)

Now how about something more "hard core" suspension wise.  I'm noticing that finding aftermarket stuff is a &$#*% for this car.  So what would I need to pick up if I want something aggressive that would get some much needed attention to a car that doesn't get enough respect and attention?    

Offline GtEunuch

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« Reply #2 on: Mar 11, 2006, 01:42:17 am »
okay well, since you want it... here is a great street/autocross setup, basically waht i am running right now. Great for autocross, and great for embarassing other cars on the back roads.

Autocross/Agressive Daily Driver Setup

Okay, so the Tokico Blues are still good for this set up.

Front suspension

Ground Control Coilovers with the "stock" spring rate ( 350lbs/in )

http://www.autocarparts.com/part/408/37

This will Lower the front of your car quite a bit, and they will stiffen up the ride ALOT. This may be too much to handle for some daily drivers, but i have driven on this setup for a really long time and i dont have a problem with it at all.

Rear Suspension

Coil Spring Specialties

http://coilsprings.com/

Okay, here is sorta a tricky part. You are going to need to order some custom wound springs from here. I would go with about 80% over stock in the spring rate, and you need to measure on your own drop. To get the fenders even front to back ( coilovers dropped all the way ), i had to order these springs 1.5 inches lower than stock. So lets review, 80% over stock in the spring rate, and whatever drop you want out of the back of your car.

I have found that JUST with this set up you will have a extremely nuetral car. I ran this exact set up for an entire year at autocross, and won my class. I came in first place every time, except for once, and i came in second. Just these springs and coilovers will help your car GREATLY. Body roll will be minimal, highway driving MAY suck, but overall this is a really good setup.

A few other things that we will go over later can greatly compliment this setup are:

A: Addco sways front and maybe rear ( we will again go over this later )
B: Techno Toy Tuning Camber Plates
C: Supra wheels or other similar size wheels ( rewinds, etc ) with 195/60r14 tires
D: Limited Slip Differential ( PG Powerbrute, Kaaz, etc. )
E: Alignment Settings

Once again, do you guys want the hardcore setup? It takes a bit of time to type everything, and i dont want to do it if you guys dont care... lol... i can also explain the need-to-know's about the complimentary list ( the a,b,c,d thing )

The hardcore set up is what i am going to go to this summer... its gonna be stiff, but its gonna handle like crazy! So what do you guys think? should i finish this? or just quit because no one cares about our cars?  :rolleyes:

and p.s. if I left anything out, let me know, and i will add it.
« Last Edit: Mar 11, 2006, 01:46:50 am by GtEunuch »

84' Celica GT ( 84 F Street Prepared )
Representing GT Liftbacks since August 2002

Offline 85GTS

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« Reply #3 on: Mar 11, 2006, 02:50:35 am »
whered you get the addco swaybars?
85 Celica GT-S LB "Blue"

78 Celica ST coupe "Sleepra"

00 Lexus GS 400

91 Lexus ES 250

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Offline GtEunuch

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« Reply #4 on: Mar 11, 2006, 03:28:25 am »
I got the Sways Directly from Addco. if you all want more, i will post it tomorrow, i dont quite have the time right now... but of course, that is if you guys want me to go on...

84' Celica GT ( 84 F Street Prepared )
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Offline shoggoth

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Comprehensive Sra Suspension Tuning Guide
« Reply #5 on: Mar 11, 2006, 05:22:52 am »
Please do continue, I am interested in sway-bars, strut braces, etc. as well as wheels.

I expect I'll follow your advice for the basic street setup as soon as I can focus on the Celica rather than the MR2.

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Offline GtEunuch

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« Reply #6 on: Mar 12, 2006, 06:41:52 pm »
Okay, so here is the 3rd installment of the suspension stuff...

*Hardcore* (good for track/heavy autocross use/street if your cool  :P )

Okay, so this setup is sort of like the previous set up, just the spring rates are increased and you use different shocks...

Okay, so going from what we already had

Ground Controls

This is the same thing that we used on the medium setup, but the springrates are now raised to 8kg/mm, which is a bit stiffer than the 350lb spring set up that we previously discussed. These springs can be ordered from many places, but you can get them through ground control directly. Also, if you are going STRAIGHT to this set up, you can request to have whatever spring rates you want, so you dont have to worry about ordering different springs  :)

Rear Springs

Same deal here again, call Coil Spring Specialties, and tell them the same specs as before, but you are going to need to measure your drop again, to make sure that it did not change with the stiffer front springs, but you are going to want to order these in a 6 kg/mm rate ( or even 6.5 or 7 if you want more rotation ) and in whatever drop you want.

Also, you can order some TRD Japan rear springs for the AE86 Corolla, in any of the rates i have already discussed. These drop your car 2.5 inches, maybe a little more than that with a celica ( i will get a positive on this once i order mine in about a month ). These are meant to be used with short stroke shocks though ( if you dont the spring could posibly fall out if you hit a large bump, and we dont want that to happen ) but if you are going with these springs period, you should be upgrading your shocks to something better anyways...

Shocks/Struts

This is where it gets difficult, sorta...

Okay to take advantage of this stiff spring set up, you need a good set of shocks/struts, to allow your car to handle to its full potential. A tried and true'd shock ( borrowed from the ae86 community ) is the KYB Agx line of adjustable dampers. You may be asking yourself, i thought no one made any good adjustable shocks/struts for our celicas besides tokico and their Illumina line of struts. And well, the awnser to that is, they dont. No company has a really good line up of dampers for our cars.... but there is a way

SW20 ( 2nd generation MR2, part number 765015 ) Front Struts ( for the front of our cars )
Camaro ( they had the same struts for a really long time, but the part number is 743019 ) rear shocks ( for the rear of our cars )
****Remember these part numbers are for the KYB AGX lineup only****

Now the installation of the rears is pretty simple, you just jack up the car, take the rears off ( 2 nuts, thats it ) and then bolt the new ones on. Simple as cake, but the fronts are a whole different story.

Now when if you get the struts you will notice that they are quite a bit shorter than the stock ones, and well, they are. what you have to do is shorten the strut casing for these to fit in properly. Its quite a bit of work, and if you are not a expert welder, i would suggest getting a local fabricator to do the work for you. but instead of me explaining it here is an excellent write up on how exactly to do it...

How-to Short Stroke
Everything is there, just how it would work on our cars. but remember to read it through really good to make sure that everything is going how it should. You will need some spacers to go in the bottom of the strut tube to push them all the way up, washers can be used for this, or you can order machined spacers from Techno Toy Tuning.

If you dont want to go through the hassel of everything, Techno Toy Tuning offers great prices for the Short Stroke conversion itself. All you do is send them your strut casings, and they come back shortened, with kyb agx's installed and ground controls if you want. This is your best bet if you do not want to do alot of work, or you would just rather professionals do it. They have done thousands now, and no one has complained about their work, they really do good work. Highly suggested


Summary

For this time, what do we have as the basic components of the *hardcore* setup?

-Ground Controls with 8kg/mm springs
-Coil Spring Specialties 6kg ( or 6.5 or 7 like before stated ) or TRD Japan Race springs for the AE86 Corolla
-KYB Agx Shocks/sturts from a SW20 MR2 and a Camaro with the front cases shortened

Next time ( if you guys want of course ) i will go over all this

Quote
A: Addco sways front and maybe rear ( we will again go over this later )
B: Techno Toy Tuning Camber Plates
C: Supra wheels or other similar size wheels ( rewinds, etc ) with 195/60r14 tires
D: Limited Slip Differential ( PG Powerbrute, Kaaz, etc. )
E: Alignment Settings

and by the way, is this awnsering any questions for you guys?? i would really enjoy some feedback, thx!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 10:36:01 pm by twotone_ra64 »

84' Celica GT ( 84 F Street Prepared )
Representing GT Liftbacks since August 2002

Offline OldMage

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« Reply #7 on: Mar 12, 2006, 07:18:39 pm »
I didn't have any questions, but I love seeing the info posted.  I'm more of a 'street' type that wants improvement, but not totally sacrificing comfort.  I'd be more likely to upgrade the sway bars without going really stiff on the springs.  That way I'd get cornering improvement, but not a no-springs-stiff ride.


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Offline GtEunuch

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« Reply #8 on: Mar 12, 2006, 08:19:36 pm »
Well the swaybar info will probably come tomorrow when i have more time... but yea that is what most people will do. The harsh ride is a killer, especially with stock gt seats.

ooh... and i am sure they are sortof similar, but i really dont know how much of this rear suspension information will transfer over to the GTS, like i am sure the spring rates would be fine for a stock height gts BUT, if you lowered your GTS like say 2.5 inches, your car would probably slide like crazy because of the stiff rear springs and the camber... but i dont know.

 This is all stuff that i have figured out in my journey into tons of trial and error, and its only been on my GT, so hopefully we can find someone who is really into GTS suspension, and they could add their 2 cents about what is suggested for the rear of a gts.... i dunno... but i thought this thread would help a bunch of people, newbies and old farts ( like yourself   ;) ), and well, i was bored the other day and had nothing else to do  :P  

84' Celica GT ( 84 F Street Prepared )
Representing GT Liftbacks since August 2002

Offline OldMage

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« Reply #9 on: Mar 12, 2006, 09:18:46 pm »
Typically, GT spring rates are too soft for a GT-S due to the lever action of the IRS swing arms.  The rear springs don't sit at the ends of the arms where the wheels are.  They sit a little further up the arm, so there's a leverage multiplier that factors in.  And GT-S springs are quite a bit shorter than GT springs.

Wonder if GT-S rear springs are the same dia. as GT rear springs.  Wonder how low & stiff they'd be... :huh:


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Offline Teranfirbt

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« Reply #10 on: Mar 12, 2006, 10:06:46 pm »
The one big thing you forgot is poly bushings... Enegery Suspension still makes poly for both ends of our cars (IRS and SRA).
Poly prevents all of your suspension linkages from moving around as the forces on the suspension change.
« Last Edit: Mar 12, 2006, 10:07:15 pm by Teranfirbt »
1983 Celica GT-S 2RZ swap: Deered 2014 :(
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Offline GtEunuch

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« Reply #11 on: Mar 13, 2006, 01:14:01 am »
Yea, i was going to include that in the swaybar thing... but trust me, i havent forgot poly bushings, i am trying to make this as complete as possible so yea lol, if anyone has anything else that i have forgot post it and i will include it in the last post

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Representing GT Liftbacks since August 2002

Offline WolfBoy

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« Reply #12 on: Mar 13, 2006, 06:31:55 pm »
Well, for me the thing I'm looking for is a setup that isn't to brutal on the street.  The roads here in SAn Antonio are known for their problems so I'm looking for something that will perform great on the street and work just as well on the track.

I've read everthing so far and I find it interesting that you haven't mentioned the Koni's and I'm wondering if their shocks/struts are not as good as the ones you have mentioned thus far.

Also, do you have any idea how much everything would cost: shocks, springs, swaybars, bushings and anything else you can think of?  

Offline Teranfirbt

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« Reply #13 on: Mar 14, 2006, 01:18:15 am »
Koni struts/shocks have been discontinued for our cars, I tried to get a set of rear shocks...
1983 Celica GT-S 2RZ swap: Deered 2014 :(
1986 Tercel 4WD 4AFE Swap: Going strong
1986 MR2: What a beast!
2014 Elantra GT: The reliable one

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." ~ Albert Einstein

Offline WolfBoy

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« Reply #14 on: Mar 14, 2006, 01:57:26 am »
Ouch, ok...........that answers that lol.

  One thing I forgot to ask previously was, are these suspension upgrades for the IRS Celicas only or does it also apply to the solid rear axle models as well.  I own a 85 Celica GT and wondered if anything changes as for what parts to go after and so on.
« Last Edit: Mar 14, 2006, 02:02:35 am by WolfBoy »